PUT YOUR MIND IN ITS NATURAL STATE
From an interview with Lion Cave Sayadaw
Venerable Shravasti Dhammika
For decades, Burma has been known for its well-developed
meditation techniques and retreat centres. However, there
are also those who teach by dialogue and direct pointing
at the original nature of the mind. One of them was the late
Lion Cave Sayadaw. Presented here is an interview with him
over several meetings by one of his outstanding disciple.
Lion Cave Sayadaw completed his Pali studies while still
a young monk, as is common in Burma. Seeking the solitary
life, he settled in Lion Cave village, from which he took
his religious name and where he went for alms. After some
years, the villagers sensed that he was no ordinary monk
and they entreated him to discourse on the Dhamma. With the
reluctance of those who love solitude, he tried to put them
off drawing him out as a teacher but eventually duty won
him over. When the villagers asked him the universal seeker's
question - how to reach Nibbana - to their astonishment,
Sayadaw replied, 'Your Mind already has the nature of Nibbana,
but you do not know it yet.' This most startling assertion
initially bewildered the people, who expected the traditional
response that they are in ignorance and must make great efforts
to rid themselves of the defilements, kilesas, before they
can attain Nibbana. 'Put your mind in its natural state'
became the cornerstone of Lion Cave Sayadaw's teaching.
Ven. Dhammika :- During the
Buddha's lifetime, many arahats became enlightened by practising ãnãpãnasati.
Sayadaw, please show me the way to become an arahat by this
method.
Lion Cave Sayadaw :- According to scripture,
you should go to a quite place, sit cross-legged under a
tree, keep your spine erect and concentrate on the tip of
your nose. You will feel the air entering your nostril and
then you concentrate on it mindfully.
Now why are you practising ãnãpãnasati?
This is what you have to find out. The answer is, wanting
to become an arahat. Examining that wanting or desire according
to the Four Noble Truths, what do you get?
Ven. Dhammika :- The Noble Truth of the cause
of suffering, dukkha samudaya-sacca, but can we not say chanda,
which is neutral desire?
Lion Cave Sayadaw :- Leave the idea of neutral
desire for the time being because it is a word used to describe
the desires of enlightened begins. Let us look at your desire
in the light of the cause of suffering. Just by desiring
to become an arahat, do you become one?
Lion Cave Sayadaw :- As wanting
is not sufficient, you wish to practise ãnãpãnasati. As you are
practising ãnãpãnasati, have you become
an arahat yet or not? Ven.
Dhammika :- No, sir; not yet.
Lion Cave Sayadaw :- If you are not yet
an arahat, we should look closer at the Four Noble Truths,
at bhava-tanhã,
the desire to become something, and at upãdãna,
clinging. You are making a considerable effort to get what
you long to become, is this not so?
Ven. Dhammika :- Yes sir, I believe I can see
the truth in what you say.
Lion Cave Sayadaw :- Wanting to become something,
striving to get it - these two worldly dhammas must come
to an end for you to see the Noble Truth of the cessation
of suffering, dukkha-nirodha, with clarity and wisdom. You
have to investigate these dhammas with intense interest and
energy.
Ven. Dhammika :- This is still not clear to
me. You said to try to see the cessation of desire and grasping,
but what about the effort to do that? Won't it be like trying
to put out a fire with petrol?
Lion Cave Sayadaw :- In that case, if you don't
practise, will you become enlightened?
Ven. Dhammika :- I shall never
become enlightened without making an effort but if I continue
like this, I shall just be generating more wanting and dukkha.
Please let me think about this, sir.
* * *
Lion Cave Sayadaw :- Have
you thought about it, can we discuss it? Ven. Dhammika :- It is still
not clear to me.
Lion Cave Sayadaw :- The Buddha said: 'The
Dhamma cannot be reached by reasoning. The Dhamma is profound,
subtle, and only one who knows cause and effect can understand
it.' But you know this already, do you not?
Ven. Dhammika :- Yes, sir.
Lion Cave Sayadaw :- The more
you try to grasp it with your mind, the further away it is.
That is why no-thinking, no-planning is nirodha (cessation).
Only knowing the Noble Eightfold Path will lead to the truth.
What one has heard from teacher after teacher after teacher
only amounts to knowledge. The Noble Truth of causation has
to be eliminated by following the Noble Eightfold Path. Only
then will the Noble Truth of cessation be apparent. This
is why it is said: 'If you can see dukkaha, you have got
rid of the cause of dukkha.' So do focus on dukkha. Trying
to mull over what you think is the Noble Path is itself causing
you dukkha. Realize that you are striving and miserable;
realize that this is your dukkha and that you have created
it by your thinking. This is not the real cessation but it
is the right way to develop your practice.
Ven. Dhammika :- I understand what you
say but please tell me how to develop ãnãpãnasati.
Lion Cave Sayadaw :- I shall explain, but have
you seen the end of the desire to be an arahat and the effort
that goes with it? Have you seen the truth and wisdom of
this matter?
Ven. Dhammika :- Yes, I have seen it. Just
drop the desire and striving to be perfect. That's what you
mean, isn't it?
Lion Cave Sayadaw :- I do
not think you have it yet. I have explained this to you very
clearly, with nothing hidden, so that you can really understand.
Before you began practising ãnãpãnasati,
the desire and striving for perfection were not there at
all. This is what you must bear in mind. You must be very
aware of your state of mind before the desire arises. Only
then can you go ahead with your desire and make a proper
effort in your practice. You must realize as you practise
that you are grounded in desire and that you are striving
to attain something.
Ven. Dhammika :- I see what you mean, Sayadaw.
Lion Cave Sayadaw :- You must know this in
your practice; you must see the ceasing of causation and
with it, dukkha. Then you will know the Noble Truth of the
causation of suffering. You will know that when the cause
ceases, dukkha ceases. Then you will see nirodha and the
Path all at the same time; you will know the whole of the
Four Noble Truths. An ordinary person, when desire and dukkha
do not stir, knows the mind is not stirring. Arahats, on
the other hand, know dukkha and the Noble Truth of causation,
and also their cessation, simultaneously. For example, it
is like looking out of the window: you see the hills and
trees and everything simultaneously. It is also like looking
up at the sky or into a mirror: you see everything at the
same time.
Ven. Dhammika :- Please explain more clearly.
Top Lion Cave Sayadaw :- When you look through
the window and see the hills and trees, you see the window
as well. When you look up at the sky, you see the sky and
the birds flying in it and aeroplanes too. When you stand
in front of the mirror, you can see all that is reflected
in it. Is that not so? When you know the Dhamma, you see
cessation first and then you see that your suffering is the
result of your agitation. For example, you are sitting here
and this space on the floor was here before you came. Is
that not so?
Ven. Dhammika :- Yes, that is true.
Lion Cave Sayadaw :- What is occupying this
space now?
Ven. Dhammika :- Me; I am
sitting here now.
Lion Cave Sayadaw :- You are
sitting in this space. But does it mean that the original
space is not here anymore?
Ven. Dhammika :- Even though I am sitting in
it, the space is here as before.
Lion Cave Sayadaw :- If you get up and leave,
the space will be here as always?
Ven. Dhammika :- Yes, sir.
Lion Cave Sayadaw :- So you see, it is
the same as in the example. Nirodha is just like empty
space and your occupation of the space is like the formations,
sankhãras. The
defilements are like the clouds that shroud the sun. The
sun is like the Noble Truth of cessation - always there and
shining.
Ven. Dhammika :- I would like to ask about
one special point. Can an enlightened person's mind be covered
by defilements like the clouds obscure the sun?
Lion Cave Sayadaw :- Enlightened beings, with
all their wisdom, can never be covered by defilements.
Ven. Dhammika :- You have answered only the
wisdom aspect of my question. You still have not answered
completely.
Lion Cave Sayadaw :- One dhamma can never dominate
another dhamma because all formations arise from causes and
conditions. If one condition is missing, then everything
collapses. This is why cessation cannot be suppressed and
why enlightened beings cannot be covered again by defilements.
If the ultimate truth cannot be understood, it is said to
be hidden or covered, but this does not mean it is not always
there. This is said in the scriptures.
Ven. Dhammika :- Yes, I have read it.
Lion Cave Sayadaw :- That is why one cannot
add or subtract from the Four Noble Truths. They are completely
impersonal; no one can adjust or amend them. You have to
realize the truth as the truth is.
Ven. Dhammika :- Therefore, if one attains
the light of wisdom, does the darkness of ignorance, avijjã,
disappear completely? Will avijjã appear again in
the consciousness of an enlightened being? For example,
in the beginning a baby does not know that fire is hot
but once he has touched the flame, he realizes that fire
is hot. Never again will he not know that fire is hot.
Is it like this arahats? After they attain enlightenment,
do perceptions based on ignorance never arise in them again?
Lion Cave Sayadaw :- Your question is theoretical.
Arahats are those who know the Dhamma through their own
realization and wisdom. We are not just discoursing theoretically.
In discussing the Dhamma points, we impose our own ideas
on to truth and we carry on thinking that our own idea
of the Dhamma is what is actually is. In fact, the Dhamma
never gains or loses in any respect and is completely independent
of our ideas, judgements and conceptions. Whether we realize
it or not, it is always there, just as it is. Although the
Four Noble Truths exist, the ordinary person does not know
them. Not knowing is ignorance, avijjã; knowing is
wisdom, vijjã.
If I answer your question to your satisfaction, you will
never cut through the fascination with theoretical speculation.
You will never realize the true experience of Dhamma that
lies beyond your studying. But if you want a theoretical
answer, here it is: the arahats are those who have done away
with the Noble Truth of causation forever and it will never
arise in them again. Now are you satisfied?
Our body-mind is like a hut at a cross-roads
where travellers rest. Travellers from the four directions
come and rest here for a while and then continue on their
journey. The nobility, rogues, ascetics, beggars - they
all come to the hut and leave it. There is no regulation
saying one may use the hut and another may not. The meaning
here is that the body consists of four elements, earth,
water, air and fire, and it has no owner. The most important
thing is to be able to live with the wisdom of anattã,
no-self.
The last thing I want to say is brief and concise, so listen
carefully. The realization of the arahats is that there is
nothing in this body-mind except impermanent things, nothing
you could call an arahat. Let me explain further: drop all
this thinking about Nibbana. Look at the physical being and
the mind. The truth about these is that they arise from causes
and conditions; they appear and disappear, come together
and then break apart.
Ven. Dhammika :- Yes, I see.
Lion Cave Sayadaw :- Then, where is that idea,
what I want to become?
Ven. Dhammika :- It cannot be seen.
Lion Cave Sayadaw :- So cease wanting to become
something. Let cessation be as it is and stay as it is.
Translated by Ba Thet
Gyi, formerly of Rangoon, in order
to express profound gratitude to the late Lion Cave Sayadaw
for his example and teaching.
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